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Episode #261: PDA and Collaboration Over Compliance Dr. Michael C. Selbst and Dr. Jeniffer Cruz

In this reprise episode, I’m revisiting an important conversation with Dr. Michael Selbst and Dr. Jeniffer Cruz about Pathological Demand Avoidance, often called PDA. I began getting more questions about PDA as clinicians and parents shared concerns about students who weren’t responding to traditional strategies and seemed to escalate around even small or well-intended demands.

In this episode, we break down what PDA is and how it’s currently understood. While PDA is not a formal diagnosis in the United States, it’s often described internationally as a profile rooted in anxiety and a strong drive for control. Dr. Selbst and Dr. Cruz explain how both explicit demands, like being told to complete a task, and implied demands, such as routines or social expectations, can trigger a fight, flight, or freeze response.

We also explore why compliance-based systems and reward-driven approaches often don’t work for learners with this profile. Even positive strategies can increase anxiety when they rely on external control. Instead, this conversation focuses on shifting toward collaboration over compliance, building trust, and reducing power struggles so regulation can come first.
What I appreciate most is how practical this discussion is. We talk about language, tone, and small changes adults can make to better support regulation, communication, and independence.

#autism #speechtherapy

Today’s Guests:

Michael C. Selbst, Ph.D., BCBA-D, LBA is the Executive Director of Behavior Therapy Associates in Somerset, New Jersey. He is a Licensed Psychologist in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, Certified School Psychologist, Board Certified Behavior Analyst at the Doctoral level, and NJ Licensed Behavior Analyst. Dr. Selbst earned his undergraduate degree with honors in Psychology at the University of Delaware, and he was awarded a University Fellowship to Temple University, where he attained his Master’s in Education and Ph.D. in School Psychology.

He has expertise in the evaluation and treatment of clients who present with symptoms of anxiety, depression, ADHD, autism spectrum disorder, Asperger’s Syndrome, obsessive-compulsive disorder, mood disorders, oppositional defiant disorder, social skills deficits, learning disabilities, as well as family and relationship issues, parent training, and co-parenting. Dr. Selbst has extensive experience working with preschool-aged children through adults, including expertise in helping individuals working through significant life changes and transitions. He has led numerous workshops, including at local, statewide, national, and international conferences. Dr. Selbst is co-author of the Behavior Problems Resource Kit: Forms and Procedures for Identification, Measurement and Intervention and the social skills curriculum, POWER-Solving®: Stepping Stones to Solving Life’s Everyday Social Problems, and the book chapter “Acceptance and Commitment Therapy” in A. G. Dempsey’s (Ed.) book, Pediatric health conditions in schools: a clinician’s guide for working with children, families, and educators.

Dr. Selbst’s professional interests and approaches include Acceptance and Commitment Therapy/Training (ACT), Cognitive Behavior Therapy, and applying Behavior Analysis in his work with individuals, families, and organizations. He assists clients in increasing their psychological flexibility, making meaningful steps toward who and what is important to them. Dr. Selbst is a member of the following professional organizations: American Psychological Association; National Association of School Psychologists; Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies; Association for Behavior Analysis International; Association for Contextual Behavioral Science; New Jersey Psychological Association; and New Jersey Association of School Psychologists.

He has previously served as a member of a Human Rights Committee for adults with developmental delays. Dr. Selbst also serves as a Volunteer Clinical Assistant Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School. Dr. Selbst has the authority to practice interjurisdictional telepsychology (APIT) from the PSYPACT commission, allowing him to provide telepsychology to clients in many states. To see if your state is included, please click on this link: https://psypact.site-ym.com/page/psypactmap

Dr. Jeniffer Cruz, Ph.D., NCSP is a licensed psychologist in New Jersey and a Nationally Certified School Psychologist. Dr. Cruz received her undergraduate degree in psychology with a minor in speech, language, and hearing sciences from Boston University. She continued her education at the University of Rhode Island, where she earned her master’s degree in psychology and doctoral degree in school psychology.

Dr. Cruz has experience using evidence-based treatment approaches, including cognitive behavior therapy, to treat children, adolescents, and adults who experience difficulties related to anxiety, depression, ADHD, grief/loss, trauma, disruptive behaviors, autism spectrum disorders, and social skills
weaknesses. She has a particular interest in early childhood mental health and promoting positive parent-child relationships in treatment. Dr. Cruz has provided individual, group, and family therapy in various settings including public schools, hospitals, a university-based clinic, and a community mental health center. Dr. Cruz has also consulted with schools to promote the academic and social-emotional needs of students with disabilities. She has extensive experience providing school-based SEL counseling, conducting psychoeducational evaluations, and supporting the implementation of evidence-based interventions in schools.

Dr. Cruz is dedicated to sharing knowledge through professional workshops and presentations to the community for the prevention and intervention of mental health problems.

Dr. Cruz has the authority to practice interjurisdictional telepsychology (APIT) from the PSYPACT commission, allowing her to provide telepsychology to clients in many states. To see if your state is included, please click on this link: https://psypact.site-ym.com/page/psypactmap

What’s Inside:

  • What Pathological Demand Avoidance is and how it differs from defiance or noncompliance
  • Why anxiety-driven responses make compliance-based strategies ineffective
  • How shifting from compliance to collaboration supports regulation and trust
  • Practical ways to adjust language, expectations, and support for PDA learners

Mentioned In This Episode

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